V6 into GEM conversion, also mooch

[HONES]

Becoming more and more interested as i can buy my g/fs mums car (same as mine) even two tone. And shes original owner of the gem(one who drove it out of factory) and its been wel taken care of. even rust removed...i can get it reeeeel cheap. coz im a sweetie. Also can buy mums car real cheap coz she wantrs a new car and blah blah. its a manual v6. sports pack...


Anyways im after information about this conversion. WHat EXACTLY needs to be done and how to go about doing it.
I have searched but nothing helped.

Im serious too. no smartass like me giving me stupid replys.
Can anyone help please?

Mooch, who would i ring about finding out if i can register it and get it roadworhty, what brakes i need...etc. Can u pass any numbers along?
Thanks guys.

[HONES]

i just read the thing in R&D and that doesnt sounds promising.

anyone pass anything on? very interested

[Gene FJ20DET]

u will spend more $$ at the engineers getting it on the road than u would doin the conversion.
u "can" get conversion kits, if they reply, or answer the phone.
as for "what and how" do i do it.
step 1: take out both engins.
step 2: look puzzeled for a few weeks.
i didnt have a clue what to do on my conversion. just get stuck into it.
BTW: u will need a 3/4 chassis put in DEFFINATLY
_________________

[MR_GEMI]

dont forget to scratch ur arse for a further 3 weeks, just like gene and probably yobbo, PH GEM just drinks his own pee!

fuckin bullshit out,
kev
_________________

[Mooch]

Ok hones, budget on spending about 10 g's for this conversion mate. I’m serious.

You have the driveline by the sounds of it, but that’s not even 10% of what you will need.

As a quick run down,

The motor I’m guessing is a series 1 or 2 v6. If its a series 1, use it to get the car through engineering and then toss it. They are shit, the cranks have offset journals for starters (weak) and they are as harsh as all hell.

Anyways! So much to write and so little lunch break. The ECU from the early V6s , especially the manual has no security bullshit attached and has no TH700 auto components.

As this motor has far less power than later versions you'll have as bit easier time in regards to lane change and braking tests. about 50 KW difference to VN s1 to VX @ 154 KW -ecotec mind you which is totally different motor, being 20 mm shorter in the block for starters.

The ECU will require simply a 12v feed and that’s about it. I'd go after market gauges so you have replace your senders as well on the motor – this way they will work accurately. The air-box is on the battery side so place your battery in the boot. I know this info is all over the place but I’m just writing as i think of it mate! Use arc welder cable for this as it is cheaper than the 2 gauge stuff they sell at rice barn etc and is the same stuff. You can get it from places like ETPS on Research Road @ POOraka.

As for speedo cable, the commodores run an electric speedo on the late autos but im not sure about the manual or early turbo hydro’s. I think they are a t5 box. Rod Hadfield makes speedo cable to adapt them anyways, call Castlemaine Rod Shop or alternatively check out their site. That said, if it is an electric speedo – unlikely I think – just run an after market one like a VDO etc. They are about $300+ which may work out the same price as the new speedo cable from Castlemaines anyways.

You’d need to get your car into somewhere like CDS engineering, for a ¾ chassis which will tie the car together. At the same time you’d probably have to turf the diff and torque tube set up for engineers requirements as well – 4 wheel discs. Use the BTR78 diff from your mums car and the whole rear end set up as well. They should be able to graft it in. If you want to get really trick, use a non 4 wheel steer 92-96 Mazda 929 IRS rear which bolts in with 4 bolts!! ($$$$$ but worth it) Go see my uncle Dino @ Adelaide Gearbox and Diff down @ Brompton or his mate Richard @ Extreme Drivelines just off West Terrace to shorten your rear.

I’d be replacing all bushes, bearing, pads etc etc. As for the hand brake, I’m sure the commodores have a single cable set up like the gemi’s, if they are a twin then you could either use a falcon btr78 with the inbuilt handbrake or just use some careful thought and engineering skills. Shouldn’t be too hard – we just did for dads hk pretty easy enough.
For front brakes I’d use the Just Gemi Spares kit for $1200.00, however, the Gemini booster is quite marginal. So I’d use the commodore booster because you will need the master cylinder etc anyways. Especially with the bigger displacement cylinders in the rear you will need to move a lot of fluid.

That being the case you will need to head down to Hardie Spicers down at Dry Creek for a tail shaft as the commodores use a two piece bullshit thing that a) will not be the right length b) vibrates like shit under heavy throttle and wears center uni’s.

I’d also advise fitting mini tubs to the arse end and running some 8’s under it atleast so you can get the power to the ground. As it is with my grippy soft compound 205’s on 6.5’s I cant get traction! That’s bullshit considering I’m only making 107kw’s and fairly good torque figures.

With a manual box you will be placing more stress on your rear anyways.

You will need engine mounts and a modified sump for the crossmember. The sway bar will foul on the sump if you lower the car by more than 1.5 inches because the arms move up. To get around this use longer high tensile bolts and longer crush tubes on the arm mounts or fit an after market bar. If you do update to a vs onward v6 keep your steel vn sump. Actually I’m not 100% they are compatible. If so use it, if not you will need to organise one through Castlemaine Rod Shop as the ecotec sumps are alloy and need to be modified also.

Toss the power steering.

Use the radiator and the thermos from your mums car.

I’m pretty sure commodores are a rear mount thermo.

The shifter will come out further back and you will need to fabricate a gearbox crossmember.

You will need to fit a surge tank, using something like a VL pump to fill it and then another one from your surge using high pressure fuel lines. Speak to Leroy @ Bow Tie Racing Products. Your filler neck will have to be changed to ULP type.

You will need to fit a catalytic converter also. You cant’t use your mums one because after about 3-4 years they are useless anyways.

If I was you I’d be looking for a silvia half cut with an sr20 turb and do that. This way you’d be getting out of a lot of the chassis work purely on displacement. But I see your point coz I wanna do this v6 conversion to mine in the next two years anyways!!

Give Rory a call from Rory Thompson Services (my engineer) or Doug Potts also for engineer liason. You will need to get approval in principle from the DOT So give Regency a call after you speak to your engineer. Get everything in writing b4 you even think about starting. Like I said, 10’g minimum.

Good luck mate.

Mooch

[Mooch]

Just had a thought, bring me your dash and i can graft in the vn cluster into your dash. It'll look factory and save you having to run after market guages and speedo cable/guage.

Using fibreglass and expanding foam etc. Like mine.

Cheers
Mooch

[IDAREU2]

mate you could get away with it for cheaper im tell you now you could save at least 3 grand on that mooche when your ready let me know

cheers

[HONES]

thanks mooch.

your always a help *sucking up*

Thats heaps of info to get started on. Already printed out and ready to show daddy!

[GEm1ma has xplod gea]

i'm gettin a vh without motor and gearbox, doin the same thing with a 3.8v6 vr-s engine but i'm stayin wid auto box. Much easier to put 1 into a vh, don't have to worry bout the rear end, u just have to upgrade the front brakes, wid vr disks. I got heaps of info on it n shit, estimating it to cost round 5-6g's easy, it'll b easiser to get it engineered 2. By the way dont go with a vn or vp 3.8v6, they only put out 125kw. But then again power to weight thats okay. I'ma commo and gem fan so yeh just tellin u 's whats goin on, i was thinkin of droppin 1 in my tg but theres too much to upgrade for my liking. By the way they got vs 3.8 ecotec engines in the trader 4 $1600 odd bucks and Vn 3.8efi for $650.

chris...

[Gold TX Sleeper]

An old trick to the V6's is to chuck the heads off a VN onto the later model ones. They're apparently better in terms of 'port'ability, the Haddad brothers that built the 9 sec VN have endorsed them in many build ups. Have a look through previous Street Commodores mags as they have been featured in them quite a few times.
Cheers,
Jasyn...