ATTN. Dreavon. Re. Fucked the stupid crapper

[Green Machine]

Hey, thanks for your advice the otherday. I got a couple questions thou, i thought i would post here incase neone else had anything consructive to add - hope you dont mind.

Well heres how i understand it, i need to take everything forward of the timing case off, drain the sump, un-do the engine mounts??, jack up the car at the gearbox??, and then take off the timing case and fiddle with shit. is that right? am i missing a step? Also, i was thinking about how everyone said that there would be valve damage to atleast two valves (one open on intake, another open on exaust) and maybe a few inbetween. But wouldnt that only be true for high proformance engines, with super compression? i'm working on a stock TE at the moment, and i dont think it has a very high compression ratio, atleast not enough for the pistons to be hitting the valves hey? i could be wrong, but i'd almopst guess they were designed never to be able to touch!

Anything else i should be looking for to see if it's damaged?

Thanks mate
Davo

[QldRobbo]

Yeah, that's a way you could do it all (I'd personally use an engine crane and take it out of the car totally, but maybe that's because I own one)...

Don't forget to take the sump off completely after you jack up the engine.

Also, before you take anything off, align the engine at TDC and then when you are putting the cam sprocket back on with the new timing chain, make sure you line up the notches perfectly.

And no, stock engine's still hit valves on the tops of pistons

[Racegem]

You'd be lucky if it were only two valves. At 2500 rpm, each valve opens and shuts 20 times. If it took half a second to stop the cam when the chain broke, each valve has still opened and closed 10 times out of sinc with the pistons. Unless the clearance on a stock motor allows the valves to open without hitting at TDC (which I doubt), you'll have some bent valves.
Have fun getting the motor up far enough to get the sump off far enough to be able to get it all back together.

[my gemeration]

i did this recently and unless your motor is in good knick in may be easier to get another one. it is a big job and would definately be easier out of the vehicle. i don't think jacking up will give enough clearance to remove the sump altogether, my gem was on a hoist when i done it so that will have made a big difference. there are two bolts in the front of the head for the timing cover but you will have to take the head off anyway. you will need a gasket kit. i think you get the tensioner new with the new chain some else may be able to confirm this. like i said if you have access to a newish motor that may be the way to go. i have 3 or 4 heads here if you need one rather than recoing yours, up to you...len

[Green Machine]

Hey, Where abouts are you? you wouldnt happen to have a 1600, 1800 or 2lt engine around would you for sale? i need one in queensland, around brisbane!

[my gemeration]

sorry mate i am way to buggery down in the wimmera in victoria, i have an old 161 that was smoky when i pulled her out, but i do have a damn good head, it's been reco'd...len

[Draevon]

Sorry I didn't reply sooner ... I'm moving.

anyways ... yes it's easier to do out of the car and yes it's easier to take the head off and yes it's easier to buy a new engine. But if you don't have an engine crane, don't really want to take the head off of your engine, and don't really want to buy and install a new engine, it still can be done, and will only cost you around $30 - $80 depending on the damage you have done. If you're just going to install another 1600, you may aswell give this a shot one weekend anyway ... what have you got to lose.

So here is a summary of what i did from memory ... I have done it twice like this, so if anyone says it can't be done, they have little or no idea what they are talking about.

- Remove everything in front of the timing case. take your fan off, drop your alternator to one side and give yourself as much room as you can.
- Align the engine at TDC.
- Remove your air filter and rocker cover and distributor. Take out the fuel pump if you are working on a later model where the fuel pump is attached to the head of the engine.
- Take the bolts out of the engine mounts. Put a jack under the front of the gearbox and jack it up as far as it will go.
- Drain your sump, then get under the car and remove all the bolts/nuts holding the sump to the engine, and drop it down as far as it wall go. You wont be able to remove it altogether because there isn't enough space, and the dipstick channel gets in the way.
- Remove all bolts retaining the timing case to the front of the engine. There's a bunch going in from the front and 2 going into the timing case from the head.
- Pull the timing case off the front of the engine. If you can, try and keep the head gasket in one piece.
- Check and renew any broken or overly worn components of the timing mechanism. I would say you will be up for a new tensioner and chain (obviously). If you broke your chain, it's obviously caught on something which I would guess would be one of the guides (slack side most likely). these are kind of hard to get on and off with the head in place, but it can be done. I replace my chain, cam sprocket, crank sprocket, slack sde guide and tensioner. The second car i did it one replaced the chain, tensioner and slack side guide only.
- Make sure you set all the timing up properly, using the bright links and markings on everything ... a gregories manual can be helpful here, but if you know roughly what your doing (what should be opening when, etc) you can just work it out that way. If your chain doesn't have bright links, the should be (from memory) 40 'dots' between bright links on one side, and 48 'dots' on the other side. Its a lot easier to remove the rockers so you can turn the cam easily to get it where you want, then reattach them.
- Once the timing is all set up, clean the faces where the engine and timing case meet. Set up your distributor gear properly (see your gregories). Cover the meeting faces with gasket goo, including the top of the timing case where it meets with the head (piece together your head gasket if you need to.
- Put the timing case back on making sure you line up the oil pump, and make sure it goes on nice and flush, which can be a hassle. Redo all the bolts holding the case to the engine, being very careful not to drop the two the go in through the head or you'll probably have to pull the timing case off and start again.
- Reattach the sump, amking sure the rubber seal is in place right the way around.
- Reattach the fan and alternator and distributor. Turn the engine 2 full rotations using the fan, checking that distributor is pointing to the right place and valves are opeing and closing at the right times. You have to get this right so it pays to have someone who at least knows how an engine works for this part.
- Put everything else back on and start your car. Adjust your timing at the distributor. Drive away and laugh at everyone who said it couldn't be done.

I'm sure I've forgotten bits and pieces along the way but you should be able to pick them up as you go. Let me know again if you have any more questions.

.draevon

[my gemeration]

no-one has actually said it can't be done but alot of people have offered many and varied pieces of equally good info. you must be very lucky not to have bent valves on both occassions as surely this is a larger expense than replacing the timing chain depending on your ability to perform the required works. loved the long post but, had to go shave after reading it