Gemin_Eye, Springs...

Racegem · backyard mechanic Joined: 30 Jan 2002 Posts: 987

Please bear with me Sam, and anyone else bothering to read this,
I have some issues!

Does this sound familiar?
"Wipe off 5, or wipe out lives!" "SPEED KILLS!"
Why shouldn't you speed? Because it's "dangerous"!!

Hands up anyone who doesn't, or hasn't ever sped! Hmmm.. I don't see very many hands...
Speeding in the wrong place in the wrong conditions by a driver not concentrating kills, not speed itself.

Why shouldn't you cut your springs? "BECAUSE IT'S DANGEROUS!!"
This was the only response I got when I asked people with INFORMED opinions as to WHY a coil spring should not be cut. By informed I meant metalurgists and Suspension professionals and the like, but all I got was "my mates cousins, brothers, half-sister did this and crashed her car." Maybe if she wasn't doing 140k's over a railway crossing on a 90* bend in the wet with bald tyres and worn shockers... you never hear the whole story.

IDAREU2 told us of the damage to all of the components around the spring and a weakening of the spring. We also heard of a kidney punching ride and a cracked chassis and stressed front end parts from having no spring travel.
While most of these are valid points, we didn't here that maybe it was sitting on it's bumpstops, or close to it. Might account for the "kidney punching ride", stressed front end and no spring travel. Was the cracked chassis before or after the V8 and/or turbo conversions that twist a factory monocoque shell designed for a 61kw four cyl.?

Gene told us of a 'mile high club' experience that caused a spring to fall out. Without a shortened shocker, ANY lowered spring, be it Kings, Pedders, Lovells, Aurora, cut standard, etc, can fall out given the right circumstances. Anyone who can get their pride and joy airborne should be worried about more than just their springs failing!

Here's a quote from a book called Chassis Engineering by Herb Adams, an automotive engineer who's served as a consulting engineer to Pontiac, Goodyear, Oldsmobile and Koni, and has professionally raced in several series in the US.
"Before you invest in springs to lower your car, you should be aware that your chances of success are much better if you simply cut your existing springs. All springs take a certain amount of permanent set after they are installed. (Compare a new car in the showroom to the same model a few thousand miles old.) This change in height is caused by the inevitable loss in load that any new spring experiences. If you put new springs on your car, they will settle as much as an inch within the first few months. Obviously, if your car was the correct height when you installed the new springs, it will be too low after a few months."
Mind you, he goes on to show you how to cut your springs with an Oxy torch!! Sad

Here's my first-hand experience and thoughts.
- 13 years of driving, 12 of those on cut springs in two cars, over 1/4 of a million k's, No problems.
- My project racecar when I first got it was a completly stock TD Coupe with an original, unmodified, uncut, broken rear factory spring.
- Faulty brand new, brand name springs that dropped one corner of VS Commodore 2 inches more than the rest. (But that's not dangerous because they're NEW SPRINGS! Very Happy

)
- People who don't have a reasonable idea about what they're doing with any sort of modification, just shouldn't attempt it. I would rather share the road with a competent person who's cut their own springs, than an incompetent person who's attempted their own brake fluid and pad change and stuffed it up!
- Working with trailers, I've seen my share of broken horse float tailgate springs mainly caused by welding splatter when fabricating mounting brackets. One splash of stray moulten metal can cause a weak spot and the spring to fail. Maybe these broken springs people experience is due to the way they cut the coil, not the cutting itself. Oxy-Acetelene cutting can cause either a stray moulten blob to effect a failure point on the spring or a re-tempering of the spring which can also lead to failure. (Maybe the cause of the photo on the other forum.)

*** still with me? Smile

***

- If you're going to buy new springs anyway, I'd wait. Gemini's are such a prick to pull the fronts out, why do it twice? But if you and your mate are bored one weekend, practice makes perfect.
- Brand new lowered springs should pass a roadworthy, provided they're not too low.
- Done wrong, cutting your own can be dangerous because of the way you cut it.
- Once you've cut it, you can't add it.

Hope this helps.

Yonnee

ATG23Q · tinkerer Joined: 10 Aug 2003 Posts: 201

Gemini Driving Yobbo · petrol head Joined: 26 Feb 2002 Posts: 3897

with only reading the topic and the number of replys i will type my message blind. DONT DO IT. it my look fooly sik and cheap but my gem got cut up and taken to the dump because i cut me springs. there too unpredictable and when u need to brake fast u dont want the rear end bouncing and getting airborn on ya

ONLYA4 · petrol head Joined: 12 May 2003 Posts: 1114

Thanks for that Yon, your a champ.

GROOV3 · petrol head Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 3682

i can see these threds are gonna last some time
just buy new shockers and new sprins and your dont no worrys
no defects
your happy they are happy
cars happy

Gene FJ20DET · Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 11:57 am Post subject: BA-BOW

"Gene told us of a 'mile high club' experience that caused a spring to fall out. Without a shortened shocker, ANY lowered spring, be it Kings, Pedders, Lovells, Aurora, cut standard, etc, can fall out given the right circumstances. Anyone who can get their pride and joy airborne should be worried about more than just their springs failing! "

what a load of shit

my king spring super lows progress so much that when the car is fully jacked up with the diff hangoing the springs are STILL fucking har to get out, i need to use a crow bar or something to wedge em out. where as chocped, u jack the car up like 2" and u can pull them out with ya hand
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Racegem · backyard mechanic Joined: 30 Jan 2002 Posts: 987

What shockers are you running? Koni red adjustables?
Short throw shockers are always going to keep a lowered spring captive.

Gene FJ20DET · Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: BA-BOW

that was with stock shocs then when i put the TG ones in, and yes now i have koni reds. but it was like that with all my shocks, all my gems and all my springs (pedders, white line and kings)
iv never been able to just "take out" any spring other then chopped ones
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GROOV3 · petrol head Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 3682

thats weird cause even with lowered springs the spring is less so when you jack it up it will fall out unless you have short travel shocks
this is only in the back

Stock TE · backyard mechanic Joined: 12 Mar 2002 Posts: 853

I had Pedders lowered in my car with stock shocks and they would fall out when jacked up, it was only when I got Monroe GT gas did they stay captive.

Gene FJ20DET · Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: BA-BOW

wierd. :S
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GROOV3 · petrol head Joined: 04 Oct 2001 Posts: 3682

maybe your "stock" ones wernt stock they may have been replaced for shorter ones with std springs in there ????

cause every gemini ive seen they fall out
and cant be cause of the modle
cause my mates tc coupe deos it my mates te does it
seen a td do it so yeah

weird

Gene FJ20DET · Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: BA-BOW

yeah that could be it... dunno
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goons hired goons · petrol head Joined: 04 Jul 2002 Posts: 3268

did you clowns see that episode of motorway patrol with the guy with cut springs that hit a pothole, lost control of his car, collected another car along the way and squashed its driver against a concrete pole? care to take a guess as to what the investigators found was the cause of the guy losing control? (at 100 kays mind you); you guessed it, cut springs. thats why its dangerous. fair enough if youre silly enough to do it, but think about the other people on the road.