Springs- lowered or cut???

Racegem · backyard mechanic Joined: 30 Jan 2002 Posts: 987

I'd actually like some educated answers here as well as some 'informed' opinions, not just "my mate said..."

PhilC asked about cutting down Commodore springs on Monday, and rather than responding there where no-one reads three days behind, I'll put the question here.

Those that answered that cut spring are "dangerous", where did you get that information?

Also, explain why you think that cut springs will lose their "tension".

Yonnee.

Custom · tinkerer Joined: 27 Mar 2003 Posts: 63

Cut springs "CAN" be dangerous, and "ARE" ilegall.
I had an XE Fairmont and drove it arould for 6 years on cut springs (2 coils) all round and never had a problem until I had a stack. When the insurance company had a look at the front end and spotted the cut springs, they flipped and didn't fix the car, didn't give me a payout, nothing. I could have taken them to court but had no chance of getting anything from them.
Your best bet is to buy lowered springs and save yourself the hassles when and if you have a stack.

As for cut springs will loosing their "tension", I don't think so, the XE is a fairly heavy car and for 6 years without a problem, caining it everywhere I went...they didn't loose tension, didn't sag, etc...

Cheers.

Ron · rice boy Joined: 24 May 2002 Posts: 22

There are two reasons why cut springs can be dangerous.
1. The height of the spring is obviously reduced and when the car rebounds over a bump, the car may rise up such that the spring is no longer held tightly in position. This would apply to the rear of a Gemini, but not the front.
2. The spring rate is prortional to the number of coils, but the height reduction may result in the suspension easily "bottoming out". The sudden smashing against the bump rubbers (if they are fitted!!) can give very sudden adhesion loss.

Hence you would be foolish to try it. Correct springs are quite cheap from proper spring suppliers (about $100 per pair)and will not rattle loose at the rear, nor easily bottom out because the wire diameter is usually increased and this increase the spring rate considerably. The legal issues alone should be enough to scare you off!!

Germini · tinkerer Joined: 16 Feb 2003 Posts: 158

Yeh, spend the extra $$$ and get lowered, they look better and last longer, fully legal, made to perform, you know the deal. Cut springs are dangerous, and completely illegal. So even if ur willing to risk it, and u get yellow stickered, its a right pain in the arse gettin the cut ones out and the 'proper' ones back in. then u gotta go change it over AGAIN..... bugger that.

Racegem · backyard mechanic Joined: 30 Jan 2002 Posts: 987

O.K. let's start with Custom.
Firstly you say that "Cut springs "CAN" be dangerous", and then you go on to say that you drove round on them for six years without a problem. The fact that the insurance company wouldn't validate your claim doesn't make them dangerous. In fact one insurance company rep told me that an insurance company cannot void a claim on the basis of an unroadworthy item on a vehicle if that item was not a contributing factor to the accident.

However, I do agree with you on the tension thing. Unless you cut the spring using an Oxy-Acetylene torch, the spring should not lose its temper.

Ron...
Point No.1) Wouldn't the same thing happen with "proper" lowered springs. How many guy and girls out there are running "super-low" King springs without short-throw shockers. Same thing would happen if you're stupid enough to cane a car, that sits on its bumpstops, around hard enough to get airborn.
Point No.2) Yes, the spring rate IS 'proportional' to the number of coils, but when you shorten a coil spring, its spring rate increases. I agree with you that an aftermarket coil spring usually has a thicker coil, but then so does a rear Commodore spring compared to a Gemini rear spring.

But that STILL doesn't make them dangerous.

Germini...
"Look better"... paint the cut ones.
"Last longer"... I know of brand new, brand name springs that sagged one side after three weeks on the car, but my original 1983 springs in my Commodore are still the same height when I cut them nearly ten years ago.
"Fully legal"... only if they have two thirds original suspension travel.

STILL doesn't make them dangerous...

Pavlos · backyard mechanic Joined: 05 Oct 2001 Posts: 920

I unfortunetly have cut springs in the back of my gem. I can tell the difference between cuts and lowered. Cuts have less 'Bounce' that lowered. Having lowered spring give you a firmer ride than chopped sprigs do. Chopped springs just give you cheap looks but worse handling since there is no travel in them. I wouldnt trust them with my life. On a dark, winding wet road cut springs are bad.

Pavlos.

Gene FJ20DET · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Springs- lowered or cut???

handeling is up the shit. and choped rears can fall out causing a cco' seems enuff reason to me
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Benjamin · backyard mechanic Joined: 05 Oct 2001 Posts: 525

Where did I get that answer from??

Crashing my fucking car, smashing my fucking kneecap, losing a fucking tooth, losing my fucking mind, not to mention a shitload of money and fitness...

Is that not a good enough reason not to chop springs? It is the increased potential for disaster induced by such a bankrupt modification, rather than the apparent harmlessness.

When you cut a Gemini spring you choose which end to cut from. Most (like myself) cut the thinner end, reducing your slow speed compliance and wet road grip. Cut the other end and you lose spring rate resulting in soggy ride, where you risk hitting the bump stops.

My springs slowly sagged after a couple of years. The only reason they stopped sagging was I crashed the car on a wet road when I hit a patch of oil at 50kmh, hitting an oncoming vehicle (extimated speed 40kmh+) which adds up to 90kmh into a brick wall. Could you imagine if I were travelling any faster?

The reason I attribute the crash to the springs? I noticed a reduction in wet road grip after chopping the springs. I thought I would be smart and drive around the problem, as many of you may similarly think. This logic is fatally flawed. I had hit oil on a wet road before chopping, no stress, back-off and pull back into line.

That's my rant, I don't understand why this question is asked so often. Common sense would dictate the spending of some hard earnt dosh to do it right. Your life/health is worth a shitload more than $300.

goons hired goons · petrol head Joined: 04 Jul 2002 Posts: 3268

a mate of mine takes pride in the fact that he can turn his chopped rear springs (tg) by hand easily, very safe. dont be a cheaparse, shell out for some decent springs

goons hired goons · petrol head Joined: 04 Jul 2002 Posts: 3268

well put champion

MR_GEMI · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Springs- lowered or cut???

*stands and applauds*
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Gene FJ20DET · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Springs- lowered or cut???

*pulls dick out and swings it around like a cowboy*
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MR_GEMI · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Springs- lowered or cut???

*farts on gene*
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MR_GEMI · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Springs- lowered or cut???

*then runs away*
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rod · tinkerer Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Posts: 380

fuk it. just chop em never had a prob and it incresesed handling abbility by heaps, and also looks betta by heaps.
ive owned a ford laser (chopped)
a mazda 323 (chopped)
now a gemini TD (in the front suspenshion ive only chopped only a little bit off the big side off the coil on a set off rear VL springs)
(and the rear are also chopped. a bit bouncy tho, only becuase someone chopped off the smaller coils on the back)

i think that i might have too buy some more VL springs for the rear off my gemini. and chop only the big coil side too reduse the bouncyness.